That which remains ever unchanging is what I term the Watcher from underneath the personality. I find it an intriguing notion of considering this Watcher with the Underworld.

Hmmm... In Kabbalah, Feri, KaHuna, and other Shamanistic traditions, the lower soul (Nefesh in Kabbalah, Vivi in Feri) is somewhat similar to what has been called the id, or the unconscious. The upper soul (Neshamah in Kabbalah, Ori in Feri) is the piece connected most fully with the Divine and with all other Neshimah. This would be a river of consciousness, from which, especially in Feri, the goal is to line up the souls to allow the person to tap into Ori through Vivi.

~Muninn's Kiss

Actually the ZOA diagram is not a rune, but rather a map of position regarding a concept that derives from The Azoetia by Andrew Chumbley. To simplify it's meaning it represents a crossroads of The Goddess.

I realize that copies of the Azoetia are not exactly common and are rather rare but the point I was replying to vartavarh brought it to mind.

In any case I suspect the Zoa diagram could also be thought of as mapping the Western - Northern -and- Eastern directions within the compass or even in some non physical existence.

That point of Crossing/Crossroad in the Space/Time diagram is the perpetual "here and now".

I've been thinking about this a little more.

Whenever you THINK you are on a "Olde Straight Track" you have forgotten that the Triad of Fate Time and Circumstance conspire to masquerade in a way that prevents you from observing that you exist on a shifting platform thus creating an illusion of stability beneath the ever shifting reality only understood by those with access to the mystic realm.

Fate is the predefined pattern of things, the Order to the Chaos, so to speak. I believe part of witchcraft is overcoming Fate, learning how to side step it and create Change. Without the knowledge to do so, Fate traps you, controlling what you do, gives you an illusion of control, but in the end controls you.

Time, of course, is when you are, the fourth dimension. The Past already occurred, so is bound by Fate. The Future is defined by the Past, hence also bound by Fate. The Present, however, when you are right now, is not bound by Fate. If you know how to change Fate, you do so in the Present, in the Now. But most people live in the Past or Future, and don't even know the Present, so can't change Fate if they wanted to. We define the Past by our Memory, and the Future by our Thoughts, hence we stand in the Present, but usually only see a false Past and a false Future, and no Present at all. This is illusion, created by our own minds.

Circumstance is everything else around us, how we feel, what we know, what our five senses tell us. All these are flawed. Our emotions follow no pattern, and are easily altered by outside influences we have no control over. These influences are also circumstances. What we know is always limited. We are always missing information. The only way to know all things is to step out of our circumstances, into the stream of consciousness mentioned later in your post. Without this, we are bound by our own lack of knowledge. Our very senses deceive us. Each sense has a limit. We can't see outside visible light, for instance, and the range we can hear is limited. In addition, each sense is subjective. Red to me isn't necessarily red to you. Each person experiences the world differently, and trusts that what they are experiencing is similar enough to what others are that they can use the same words to describe it. Anyone who experiences the world drastically different from the norm is thought to have a handicap, but what if they see what is closer to Real? Our senses create an illusion of what is around us so we can understand and interact without going insane, but this same illusion keeps us from seeing beyond our own understanding.

These three things create an illusion that seems stable and comfortable, but they limit our ability to see clearly. We forget that we aren't bound by Fate, and hence bind ourselves. We forget that only the Present is real, and bind ourselves with the Past and the Future. We forget that our ability to see our circumstances is limited and we bind ourselves by what we think is real. We create Order in our lives with these illusions, and loss track of the Chaos we built them upon.

To be free of these bounds, it is necessary to realize they are all illusion and nothing binds us, or, put another way, we are bound by Nothing. By realizing this and stepping out of the illusions, we free ourselves and step into the stream, rushing by like a mighty current.

~Muninn's Kiss

That is a fascinating discourse.
For one thing - it catalyzed a fifteen year old memory which I have posted on the front page as a BLOG entry.

I'm not enough of a scholar of philosophy to expound on the deeper issues of fate with anything resembling authority.

Honestly I had avoided the idea of philosophical underpinnings to Witchcraft for far too long and was quite interested to find the topic discussed at length in The Witching Way of the Hollow Hill by Robin Artison. I have posted a review of that book elsewhere here in the Forum because I found that it opened my eyes to the issue of Fate and the Philosophy of our Pagan Ancestors in ways that other popular books on Witchcraft had not. It could well be that the fault for that was in me, or perhaps even fated

I find Mr Artisans take on the issue compelling enough on some levels though I find myself at issue with his certainty that Fate cannot be defeated.

You say:
Fate is the predefined pattern of things, the Order to the Chaos, so to speak.

This is what catalyzed my thoughts in the BLOG entry. Those particle trails are indicative of the "order to the chaos". It is a common misconception that Chaos is disordered, it is not there IS an order to it but it lies at a level beneath our ability to consciously observe it without specific tools designed to observe and experiment with it.

I'm not so sure that we or any agency can create change as an effect of magick.
Rather I suspect that in the the vast quantum soup of possibility everything is occurring simultaneously and that the only thing we can effect is ourselves. Magick or sorcery is the art of getting ourselves to where the desired effect is occurring. For sure that is creating a change, but not in the sense that it is commonly held by those who think we can create something that wasn't there already. I suppose that if the effect is the same it doesn't matter to the observer how it has come to be, but I'm strange in that I like to get down into the mechanics.

After some more thought about it, I think that it's not so much that we step outside Fate as that Fate can be redirected, bound to a new course. Fate, which most people just give up control to, becomes Destiny, which we embrace. The difference between Fate and Destiny is Intention. Fate is just letting life direct you, with no Intention of your own. Destiny is taking a hold of life and directing it. I think you have it when you say that the only thing we can change is ourself, but, since all things are affected by all other things, when we change ourselves, it changes the world around us. Each time we change a little thing in ourselves, it ripples out, changing the world around us. I think that is what magic is, not changing the world, but affecting the world through changes in us. But that isn't the goal.

In an arcicle in Pentagram Magazine (1964), Robert Cochrane (Row Bower) said:

All mystical thought is based upon one major premise: the realisation of truth as opposed to illusion. The student of the 'mysteries' is essentially a searcher after truth, or as the ancient traditions described it, "Wisdom". Magic is only a by-product of the search for truth, and holds an inferior position to truth. Magic, that is the development of total will, is a product of the Soul in its search for ultimate knowledge. It is an afterthought upon a much larger issue, the ability to use a force that has been perceived while searching for a more important aim within the self.

I think this is true.

~Muninn's Kiss

Hi Owen
I was scanning back through the posts and found something you said earlier which really struck a chord with me

owen93 wrote:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this blog entry and forum posting was transmitted verbatim to me. I typed it as best as my ability could handle, but I am just the vehicle through which this transmission was carried.


Over the last few months i have recieved a lot of poetry, prose, ritual wording and other items through dreamwork and the exploration of the "space" between dreaming and waking. I keep a record of everything, times, date etc and it certainly makes for interesting reading the following day (once i have deciphered the handwriting...)
I was just wondering if other people had also experienced this, how they felt about it and what they did with the material they channeled.

Jera

I am not personally gifted with a natural ability to bootstrap into the hypnogogic space, but it does occur spontaneously from time to time.
I have experimented some with using Salvia as a Psychic Stimulant and found it to be a valuable ally.

Most of my results are more in the realm of epiphanic gnosis than Ritual wording, poetic or otherwise. This is likely due to presently working with a current that is new to me and which I can only characterise as a wealth of new ground to cover.

Have you received anything you would feel comfortable sharing ?

Hi Owen,
I'm very lucky in that since a young age I have been able to vividly remember my dreams and also, to varying degrees, take active participation in them. It seems to be a thread which runs through the women on the maternal side of my family.
The material I channel is usually related to me by a guide just after waking from dreaming in the early hours of the morning. Below are three small pieces that were related to me in the same night a few months ago which i feel are meant to go together and i am happy to share with people. I believe there may be more to go before the final line but i haven't been told it yet.

O Ashen Lord of the Hollow tree
In triple fiery mantle robed

O Azure Maiden of the Sea
In blackest stars of night adorned

At Edens gate i kneel.

Id be interested to hear your thoughts/opinions on it.

Jera